chrysler airflite : R> I don't want to demean his work, just point out that I didn't seeR> anything startlingly new or what I felt like was in need of aR> Copyright to protect. Patents are there to protect new ideas. Copyrights are there toprotect entire works of art. Trade marks are to protect words like "Radical Fish". Does that help?Leaving aside the legal issues I can't resist saying that I feel there are substantial ethical reasons why we should respect Moschen'swishes with regard to his work."...Andrew and Paula Conway guard the entrances to the bathrooms bycracking large bull-whips." Two Ply Press, May 1994.You are basing your argument (about copyright) by US law. I know thatover the UK thins are different. Perhapse one of our Brittish readers cancheck out the Copyright precedent in the UK.What that patent as you described it would be an design patent. As long asthe design is not "exactly" the same his patent is valid. This is to keepsomeone from making casts off your product and making another.Dube did not go for that kind of patent. Dube patented the idea of variythe ballance of a polyethelene club by varying its wall thickness. I'mnot sure how strong the patent is, but that's what is filed under in thepatent office.
chrysler airflite : Trademarks cover (as long as I have been studing it recently):-words such as Kodak and Chevrolet;-Symbols such s the big red K used by Kellogs, Chrysler's pentagon, theJolly Green Giant.-Names, Such as McDonalds Hamburgers, Webster's Dictionary-Numberals suchas as 747, Segrams 7, ED-40-Letters such as IBM, RCA-Packaging, such as the Coke bottle, Pierre Cardin Cologne Bottle.-Labelling, such as the red and white design on Coca Cola cans.-Musical Notes such as the three notes used by NBC-Colors, such as the pink color used on a certain brand of fiberglassinsulation.-Composites of the above, such as a Coke bottle with the registered name inthe registered colors.---------------------------------------- -----------------------------------Grego ry Cohen + Infinite Illusions Juggling Supplies call 1-800-548-6724 + for a catalog or anonymous FTP our catalog from + io.com /pub/usr/infinite + or Use Mosaic and connect to Are you sure it is possible to have a number as a trademarkI had heard you could not get a trademark for numbers and that is whyIBM opted for the PENTIUM chip rather than the 586 - to prevent clonechip manufacturers making chips and calling them PENTIUM. Declan Higgins - ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Mihi crede, hoc mihi magis quam tibi nocet"~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~
chrysler airflite : I don't know about Intell (I think it was intel, not IBM). the example Igave came from my Trademark and patent Lawyer in a handout he gave me. Inthe USA you can loose your trademark if the name becomes common use. Examples of lost trademarks include: yo-yo, Asprin. Perhapse IBM wasafraid of this happening, as there is precendence that other chip numbershave been public domain. It would have been harder to defend.P.S. if anyone is interested I can post the definitions of patent,copyright and trademark that he gave me. I reiterate, that I am not alawyer, nor do I look like one. I will, on the other hand, look like a juggler in DC this weekend.---------------------------------------- -----------------------------------Grego ry Cohen + Infinite Illusions Juggling Supplies call 1-800-548-6724 + for a catalog or anonymous FTP our catalog from + io.com /pub/usr/infinite + or Use Mosaic and connect to The problem started with the 80486 (which was Intel BTW, not IBM).Although the official name of the chip was "80486" it was called486 by everyone. Thus when competitors tried to make clones theycalled their clones something with 486 in the name. Intel triedto sue but since there was no trademark on 486, just 80486 theydidn't have a leg to stand on (hooray!). Intel thus decided tocall their next chip the Pentium to solve all these silly problems.I believe their 486 chip is now referred to as either 80486 or i486both of which Intel has some sort of legal ownership on.
chrysler airflite : Alan----.sig wondering if we can legally do the "486" siteswapGreg Cohen turns off his spell checker to enhance my understandingof the Dube' Airflite patent:Yes, my description was not clear. What I meant by the bit aboutpatenting the 'internal cross section' was that he patented theidea of a hollow club with varying wall thickness. However, mycomments about 'prior art' still hold - Harry Lind adjusted thebalance of his hollow wooden clubs by varying the wall thicknessin the same way. So, all Dube' did was take an established techniqueand apply it to a new material. This might be enough to make hispatent valid. Personally I doubt it, but I am obviously not a lawyer."...Andrew and Paula Conway guard the entrances to the bathrooms bycracking large bull-whips." Two Ply Press, May 1994.Theoreticaly it is enough. Dube patented the technique in the material heused. A comparitive patent (not a great one, but the only one I have offhand) is the Trilbee Kite patent. Trilbee patented the idea of usingheat-shrink (the insulation) as a line-stop for stunt kites. the materialexisted before (heat-shrink), line stops exhisted before (usually packingtape) but the novel application of the material for the application. Dube has varied the wall thickness (like Lind) and used polyethelene, so hepatentend the idea of varying the wall thickness on a polyethelene club. I could patent the idea of varying the wall thickness of an acrylic cluband get away with it (but I'm sure Mr. Moschen would have something to sayabout this [flashback to origianal thread topic])
chrysler airflite : To add to the confusion Lind did not extrude his clubs which dube mentionedin his patent. Lind used a subtractive method of construction, notadditive like dube. If anyone has a claim it is Stu Reynolds, who doessomething much more similar in Fiberglass. Now this does not mean thatDube's patent is valid. What should be remembered is that 75% of allpatents challanged are overturned in court, and that 60% of all patents arechallanged. You still have to have the money to do it though. If anyone has the interest in finding out how Hary Lind made juggling clubsplease check out my Lind page. I have the photos up, I expect I will bewriting the text in about a week.---------------------------------------- -----------------------------------Grego ry Cohen + Infinite Illusions Juggling Supplies call 1-800-548-6724 + for a catalog or anonymous FTP our catalog from + io.com /pub/usr/infinite + or Use Mosaic and connect to Was Lind's club patented? If so, shouldn't his patent have coveredDube's club under the doctrine of equivalents? Even if Lind's clubwas not patented, shouldn't it have made Dube's obvious? Is theresomething about what Lind did that indicated it should only workfor wooden clubs, so that it would not be obvious to try to applythe same technique to whatever Dube's clubs are made out of?
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