liberty jeep : Well, I'll add my opinion here also. I personally don't begrudge DC buildingthe Liberty. Jeep can make alot of money off of the grocery getter crowd withit. Jeep really didn't have a good vehicle in that market. The Cherokee was OKin that respect, but most folks in that market are looking for something with a cooshier ride.My big complaint is the elimination of the Cherokee and lack of a capable offroadvehicle larger than the Wrangler. Unless DC had decided to finally produce the Dakar concept which lots of folks liked, they have basically lost about 1/3 of their offroad customer base (baised on percentages of TJs vs XJs I've seen onthe trail). There are many jeep offroad customers who need more cargo space thanis available in a Wrangler. In the past this group has opted for the Cherokee (whileI'm aware of a few Grands on the trail, the initial cost of those pretty much keepsthem off the trail) but now has no viable alternative in the Jeep lineup. WhileI personally don't like the looks of the Liberty (to each his own), I have had theopportunity to crawl under one and look at it. That thing isn't qualified to driveon anything rougher than a gravel road. There are absolutely no skidplates. The front IFS is a joke. Honestly, the only way they can possiably get 8" of wheeltravel is with droop. The swaybar link makes a funky loop that barely clears theA arm. It will hit the A arm and keep it from going up in about 1.5". Then thereis the choice to replace the I6 with the V6. The power numbers are all messed upfor offroad driving. It is obvious that this was ment to be a highway vehiclegiven the motor specs.
liberty jeep : I agree to an extent, GC. I have also driven a Liberty, and it is, as yousay, not a bad vehicle at all. If i was in the market for a vehicle of it'stype, choosing between Exploders and the like, I would consider it as a verygood option. I think what most people have a problem with is the name. Notthe Liberty part, but the Jeep part.You are right that this vehicle is not made for the ORV market, but for theSUV market. As far as I'm concerned, Jeep means ORV. Jeep means rugged. Jeepmeans "you CAN go there." If Jeep itself were the old lonely company makingvehicles to compete with everyone else, not being puppeteered by a majorauto manufacturer who owns other companies that make similar vehicles, iwould understand the need for competition, and the need for them to do whatthey need to to sell more cars. Unfortunately, Jeep is now owned byDaimler-Chrysler, who also owns Dodge, Eagle, etc... They could have just aseasily released the Liberty under the Chrysler trademark, and it would havebeen just another SUV, as it is. When they decided to put the Jeep name onit, it wasn't because "Jeep Engineers" designed it (try to find a "JeepEngineer" anywhere in the world, all you'll find is lots of engineersemployed by DC), or because it is the next step in a long line of vehicleswho have shaped our world's history, it was to sell more vehicles.They alienated their loyal Jeep-junkies, such as myself, by selling avehicle under the Jeep name which is quite obviously not a Jeep-typevehicle. They did it because the name means so much to so many people. Jeepmeans rugged. Jeep means pick-up chicks, drive on the beach, climb overrocks, hardcore wheelin fun. People know the name like they know the shapeof the washington monument. It is ingrained in our country's society as asymbol of our history and our freedom. Maybe i go too far with that, but nofurther than Jeep commercials, :). To me, the Liberty was not designed underthese rules, nor was it ever intended to abide by them.I do understand that DC needs to sell as many cars as they can. That istheir job as a business. But I also believe they underestimated the power ofthe Jeep name. They do not realize that the Liberty taints that name topeople who know what it means to be a Jeeper. I have heard many who say theywill not buy another new Jeep vehicle because its name has been tainted bythe Liberty. They are gaining DC business by using the Jeep name, but Ibelieve they are losing Jeep business by dragging a sacred symbol down tothe lowest common denominator.As the Liberty becomes more popular, and people start to think of Jeeps asthe typical SUV, the grocery getter, or "just another car", the Jeep name,and all the wonderful things that go along with it, the wonderful communityof Jeepers included, will start to disappear and die. I would hate to seethis happen, and this is why I hate the Liberty. I am mad at DC for raping abeloved symbol of our history just to make a buck, and I share thesentiments of others in saying that the Liberty is a disgrace to the Jeepingcommunity.Thank you for listening to my opinion on this topic.
liberty jeep : "Resent" isn't even a strong enough word for it Bill. My feelings aboutJeep changing are about the same as they would be if Chevy started offeringa V6 as an option for the Corvette. Some things are just inherently WRONG.I forget where I read it and who it was that was saying it, but the guy wassome rep for DC... He was saying something about the whole Jeep line slowlyconverting over to independent suspension, including the Wrangler, if theWrangler isn't dropped before then and replaced with another version of theLiberty, maybe a topless Liberty (anyone got any links? Bill?). The reasonI hate the Liberty so much is because I fear change for the worse. I hatethe fact that Jeep USED to be a good offroad/work vehicle, and now it'sbeing converted into a 4WD street CAR that is damn near worthless foroffroad/work. What will it take to get under YOUR skin? Discontinuing theWrangler to make room for the topless Liberty's?? Or will you even know orcare what the differences are?Mark my words, it's just a matter of time now before all the posts aboutlift kits, axles, lockers, and torque are replaced with posts about "how canI best lower my Liberty?", "how do I hook up my stupid ass alarm?", "what isthe best place to put my neon lights?", and "How big of wheels can I fitwith low profile tires?". Years from now anyone posting about taking a Jeepoff road, or using it as a WORK vehicle will be considered NUTS! I'vealready seen it, people asking, "Why would I take a $25,000 vehicle offroad?". I know Bill remembers that guy. The fact IS, DC is "taking Jeep ina new direction", and it's MY opinion that direction is DOWN.
liberty jeep : The following was quoted from another website but I just had to put it inhere because it is SO true. Take a little time and READ IT, this guy hitthe nail directly on the head."DC is saying they took the Jeepster concept (WAY UGLY), and the Dakarconcept and combined them to produce the Liberty. Well...they ruined BOTH,and the Jeep name by doing so!The Dakar (essentially a 4 door Wrangler), was a pretty decent looking rigand WOULD have been a vehicle that filled a hole that there wasn't a Jeepavailable in right now. Same with the Jeepster....a "fun roadster", but notheavy-duty serious type vehicle...would have appealed to the "cutesy", butnot serious crowd more!What they have done is damaged the Jeep name with this KJ (Liberty) model.Yes, it might ride a little smoother (IFS), and it might have some otherminor appointments compared to past Jeep models, but that's where the"pluses" end!Basically...it is larger on the outside, SMALLER on the inside than acomparable current Cherokee! LESS "utility" in other words! Nearly 500 lbsHEAVIER all around compared to comparable Cherokee models, and barely better
liberty jeep : .....you havent seen the icon? 4 wheel independent suspension tjreplacement. id be glad to mail you a picture, but im legally bound againstposting a picture of it online.I have to admit that I've been biting my tongue for a long time on the directionthat DC is going with the Jp line.I too am not a fan of the KJ. I've taken one for a ride and it is nice, but itdoesn't have the personality that a jp should have.I was fuming earlier today when I read an article somewhere on the net that wasabout an interview with a DC exec. He basically (reading between the lines) saidthat the jp line will eventually become so diluted by using common platformswith mitsubishis etc that the jp brand as we all know and love will dissapear.When I first heard about the Rubicon I came up with two theories: First; DC wasletting the jp engineers go wild to give them their swan song before they wereall "educated" in the ways of IFS, and secondly that maybe...just maybe, theRubi would become the only surviving version of the TJ. I'm seriously wonderingif the entire TJ line will be dropped except for the Rubi. That way if you wantan off-road vehicle, buy the Rubi. It would not surprise me. Look at the pricepoint of the Rubicon. Here in Canada, they're going for 32 to 35k. A Sportequiped with a D44 & trac-lok and some other minor options goes for around 29k!Cripes!!! I would pay the other 3 to 6k to get all the stuff the rubi comeswith. I would be hard pressed to upgrade a Sport to the Rubicon level for 6kusing aftermarket parts.
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